Penguin Watch Talk

magnifying glass

  • the_fugster by the_fugster

    I just got a picture where I couldn't tell whether the black things were penguins or rocks. I wanted to use the magifying glass you get when marking a penguin, but it isn't available at that point. I think it would be helpful if it was.

    Posted

  • AvastMH by AvastMH moderator

    I understand what you say the_fugster. The only way you can do this just now is to say 'yes there are animals', use the magnifier on the counting page, and if you find no animals you can then press 'back' and change to say 'No, there are no animals present'.

    Also you might find that your computer has a 'magnifier' program that would help.

    We are looking at how some of the site works so I will add your comments to that. THANK YOU for taking the time to comment here. Happy counting!

    Posted

  • the_fugster by the_fugster

    If you are looking at how the site works, I'd like to suggest that you add in a couple more buttons. One would be something like 'it's too hard to identify remaining penguins/rocks', and one option for 'possibly chick possibly adult'. I think that it doesn't matter if these options are not of actual use to the researchers. They could send back the same data as 'Too many penguins'/'adult' respectively, but I think it would make using the site more intuitive.

    Posted

  • mkmcguir by mkmcguir

    Can you put "clump" of penguins also? I just find like 4 penguins all together that makes them hard to count or tag.

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to the_fugster's comment.

    Hi @the_fugster

    I'm not really sure that such new buttons would be helpful for the results. I'm afraid that such citizens science classification methods like the PW uses lies in the fact that multiple users classify one image by choosing from the little options available and in guessing their best if necessary. So the scientists get results of some clear answers = what is definitely a penguin (marked by everyone) X what is perhaps a penguin (marked by half of users)...; what is definitely an adult X what most likely is an adult X what may be an adult, maybe a chick X what is definitely a chick.. and so on.

    As far as I understand that, if they provided a button for 'it's too hard too identify something' it would give them more unsure results than when users have to choose just from these YES/NO; Adult/Chick.. options. (My English skills need some improvement. Hope that it is clear enough.)

    So I don't find more options like these ones you suggest useful for the projects however they would definitely be more comfortable for all users:]

    I can be wrong so let's ask the scientists for their opinion...

    Thanks for your suggestion anyway!

    Zuzi

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to mkmcguir's comment.

    Hi,

    I don't think that such an option would give any good/useful results to the scientists. It doesn't say how many penguins could be gathered there. I think that much more beneficial is to guess and mark at least some of the chicks according to the size of the cluster. You won't probably count them all but it will give them an approximate count at least.

    Hope it is clear. Thanks for your suggestion:)

    Zuzi

    Posted

  • caitlin.black by caitlin.black moderator, scientist, admin

    Hi,
    I have to agree with Zuzi here. The best part of Penguin Watch is that each image is annotated by several users so that we can check the accuracy of the annotations. If you are unsure of adults vs. chicks- you can always mark them as adults. If you are unsure of a rock vs. penguin (and yes, they do often look the same) then it is best not to mark the image with penguins. If the image is too dark to tell, you can click "no" there are no animals in this picture in the first prompt.

    As for adding buttons, our science team and the Zooniverse team thought a lot about each individual button. It is designed to be as simple as possible for users while still sending back straight-forward results to the science team. Having said that, we are open to suggestions, especially as we hope to relaunch the site in the future after this set of classifications are finished.

    Thanks for your help and suggestions!

    Posted

  • the_fugster by the_fugster

    Hi @yshish,

    I don't think you've understood my point. I'm saying it doesn't matter whether it would be any use to the scientists, it would still be of use to those of us using the site. The lack of buttons is not simpler, for me at least. It leaves me thinging 'none of these option fit so which should I use?' Given the string of questions of this form on the discussion boards, I believe I am not alone in this. I'm saying that instead of repeatedly posting 'if you're not sure if it's an adult or a chick then choose adult' (note that when you start you are unlikely to even find these postings), there should be a button for 'adult or chick' that in practice makes the decision to mark it as an adult for you.

    Posted

  • msyfoopoo99 by msyfoopoo99 in response to mkmcguir's comment.

    For clumps of birds, I click on a blank spot in the photo and drag the magnification circle toward the clump of birds and drop the hash mark on the bird. This makes dealing with clumps of birds a ton easier.

    Posted

  • mkmcguir by mkmcguir

    I didn't know you could do that.. maybe add to tutorial?

    Posted

  • Nickypeng by Nickypeng moderator

    Hi guys
    We are putting together an FAQ page so that it is easy to find the answers to the commonly asked questions. We hope to get this up and running soon.
    It will certainly cover the issues about what to do if you are not sure if adult or chick, or if penguin or rock etc.
    I will see if we can include something about being able to move the magnification circle.

    Posted

  • AvastMH by AvastMH moderator

    Hi everyone. I'll check the FAQ list and make sure that the 'drag the marker' trick is highlighted - it really does make a huge difference (otherwise I wouldn't have counted 300+ King pengs the other day.

    ALSO - HERE'S ANOTHER ONE - not sure what the 'other' thing is (distant bird, group of humans)? Use the 'adult' marker circle to sneak a close peak, then transfer to the 'other' marker to put down the blue circle. Must ask if the 'other' marker could be a magnifier too - note to self! 😃

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to the_fugster's comment.

    Hi @the_fugster

    I think I understood your point perfectly just didn't explained the reasons for having only the current options clearly enough. Here is my second try:

    In fact we have to retain only the current options which make users to choose one clear answer to get the results we need. If there was a 'Not sure' button which would give us the clear answer = 'adult' as you suggest, after all it wouldn't help the scientists anyhow. Some users would prefer such a button for every penguin which is not too small for an adult. Since it would be the easiest choice.

    The current button options make users think about their choice and that is what we need. So it definitely matter whether it would be any use for the scientists. We're working hard on a big FAQs page with pictures which should make the classification deciding much easier for you. It just takes a lot of time to finish it since we are all just volunteers.

    Hope it is clearer for you. Thanks for your suggestion anyway.

    Zuzi

    Posted