Penguin Watch Talk

Deer

  • Ips by Ips

    It got suggested that his animal is a reindeer, and while I am no expert on deer I am doubtful. If this really is a reindeer, it is a very odd one. It lacks the trademark wide snow-shoe hooves and it lacks the equally trademark wide muzzle with slit-like nostrils that can be closed against snow and help heat up air. The headshape seems entirely wrong to me. Is there any other deer species present at the location?

    Posted

  • Nickypeng by Nickypeng moderator

    Hi Ips
    I have no expertise at all with reindeer,but the scientists have identified them for us. I will pass this on to them and see if they can provide more information.

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to Ips's comment.

    Hi! I haven't actually found any evidence of other deer species living there. Here is an interesting text about the reindeer situation on the South Georgia from 2013: http://en.mercopress.com/2013/03/19/south-georgia-completes-first-phase-of-reindeer-eradication-1.900-animals Could ask the scientists anyway..

    Thanks for the question,

    Zuzi

    Posted

  • mkmcguir by mkmcguir

    Many different kinds of reindeer...

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    Hm, it seems that this question never got answered! I will pass it along to a scientist. Thanks!!

    Posted

  • gardenmaeve by gardenmaeve moderator

    Reindeer physical types can vary- I read of one localized population elsewhere with very short legs and rounded bodies. I suggest this is indeed a reindeer, perhaps young and in the summer coat. There are no other deer family members in this area.

    Posted

  • AvastMH by AvastMH moderator

    There is a comment in this article: https://www.dur.ac.uk/biosciences/postgrad/current_phd/rhoelzeldeer14/

    'For reindeer populations on South Georgia in the South Atlantic, two founder populations were each sourced from the same known herd in Norway. The populations were established by Norwegian whalers, but soon left relatively undisturbed after the whalers left the island. The introductions occurred either side of a glacial barrier, and there has likely been no movement between them since they were established. Initial genetic work using neutral markers supported this, showing significant differentiation between the two introduced herds, and between each and the source herd (Lovatt & Hoelzel 2014). Both bottlenecks were small, with one comprised of three males and seven females introduced in 1911, and the other founded by the introduction of three males and four females in 1925. Two key environmental differences between the Norwegian and South Georgia habitat are the influence of salt (heavy sea spray and greater proportion of marine grasses in South Georgia) and a low burden of internal parasites in South Georgian animals (Leader-Williams, 1988). This suggests the potential for selection on gene pathways associated with salt metabolism, and the possibility of reduced selection on immune system genes. These comparative studies will provide important insight into evolutionary process and promote the development of more effective conservation and management strategies associated with introductions.'

    Just for interest - seems like the beasties have been changing due to the environment...
    VERY interesting subject though 😃

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to AvastMH's comment.

    Thanks @AvastMH for your input with the investigating!

    Hope that is the proof @Ips was waiting for:]

    Zuzi

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    And, hey, this ended up getting featured on Daily Zoo!

    Posted

  • Ips by Ips

    Hello again,

    as I thought about how to check this out, I figured I needed to ask people who are experts on reindeer. So I did send a few e-mails with this picture attached to a number of scientists who study reindeer and people who manage reindeer herds for conservation as a living. So far I have gotten two answers to the basic question "Does this picture show a reindeer"?
    One answer is from Steeve Côté, Professor at the Universite Laval (Canada), who wrote:
    "This is not a reindeer for sure. It's a female deer, most likely a red deer. Introduced in several places on the planet."
    The other is from Skarphedinn Thorrison, from the East Iceland Natural History Institute, and says:
    "I can garanti that this is not a reindeer."

    Both ask for the exact location the picture was taken so they may be able to help with exact identification of the species.
    So... sorry, I am less convinced than ever that this picture shows a reindeer!
    I am happy to forward the E-Mails to one of the moderators/scientists if desired.

    Posted

  • Ips by Ips

    Maybe I should point out that I do certainly think all the pictures I have seen of deer at the location with the king penguins do actually show reindeer. It is only the ones at the rockhopper location that look different. So I think we have two different species of deer we are dealing with.

    Can someone tell me, as exactly as possible, the location of that rockhopper colony to give on to the deer experts?

    Posted

  • AvastMH by AvastMH moderator in response to Ips's comment.

    This sounds like a question for our scientists. Caitlin - please, are you able to help with where the various sites are so that we can unravel what this beastie really is. I'd like to know more about the sites as well, as I think many more would. Thanks so much, Joan

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to Ips's comment.

    Dear @Ips

    You're very likely right that it is not a reindeer. The photo could be from the Falklands since there are Rockhopper penguins present and according to the Science page, there are no cameras out of Faklands monitoring Rockhoppers (however many new cameras were placed later and the Science page is not up to date. I actually have no information about locations of the new cameras).

    I think it could be a Red deer! They were introduced to Argentina and Chile*.. so they could be introduced to the Faklands as well!

    I don't have any proof. But better than nothing.

    As for more investigation, it is your turn now 😉 .......

    Zuzi

    *I've just read that in an old Czech book about deer 😉

    Posted

  • Ips by Ips

    Thank you for your answer!
    That's too bad, the location of the camera being undetermined at the moment. It would be great help in finding out more about those deer. In this context, I had been thinking that it would be cool to have a kind of gallery in the upcoming FAQ with the locations - just one nice picture taken at each, with some basic info. (Just to add to the workload!) If the camera location becomes known at some future point, I would be grateful for the information.

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator, translator in response to Ips's comment.

    There are about 70 cameras (maybe more) at this moment! I don't think it would that much important for most of users. Do you think it's worth so much effort to create?

    But yes, it would be cool and we have already discussed that with AvastMH before..

    Z.

    Posted

  • Ips by Ips

    70! That is a lot of cameras. I'd have guessed 20 or so. I certainly agree it is not a priority, rather a "nice to have". In the light of the number of cameras it may not be worth the trouble.

    Posted

  • AvastMH by AvastMH moderator

    New photo shows deer with antlers...http://talk.penguinwatch.org/#/subjects/APZ0002nak The mystery deepens!

    Posted

  • Nickypeng by Nickypeng moderator in response to Ips's comment.

    Test - please ignore

    Posted

  • Nickypeng by Nickypeng moderator

    test 2

    Posted

  • Nickypeng by Nickypeng moderator in response to Ips's comment.

    If you haven't seen it before, you might like to have a look at the science page
    There is a map showing the general location of the cameras.
    I agree with you that knowing where each colony is would be interesting, but as you say its a nice to have (for when the scientists have nothing else to do!).

    Posted